Idaho ends Powerball in state, fearing foreign participation

Mar 11, 2021, 6:25 am (40 comments)

Powerball

BOISE, Idaho — Idaho lawmakers fearing foreign participation in the Powerball lottery killed legislation on Wednesday that would have allowed the game with huge jackpots to continue in the state after a run of more than 30 years.

The move came after Idaho Lottery officials sought a change in state law because Powerball is expanding to include Australia in 2021 and Britain in 2022. But current Idaho law only allows lotteries in the state played by people in the U.S. and Canada.

Idaho was one of the first states to join Powerball in the 1990s. The lottery has since grown to include 45 states, two U.S. territories and Washington, D.C. The Multi-State Lottery Association runs the game.

Idaho's Legislature is dominated by Republicans, but objections to the change also emerged from Democrats. The killing of the bill by a 10-4 vote by the Legislature's House State Affairs Committee means that the state's last Powerball drawing will be in August.

Republican Rep. Heather Scott worried that when Australia joins Powerball, the country's officials might use revenue generated for government coffers to back causes she opposes.

Scott expressed concern that could happen "in Australia anti-gun causes, which they see as good and we see as not good."

Democratic Rep. Chris Mathias said the Powerball in Idaho has been good for business and that the state took millions for public education, but had concerns that more countries might be added to the Powerball participation roster.

"My concern is the delegation of authority, and essentially turning over our sovereignty to this Multi-State Lottery Association," he said. "I think we should be concerned that they could be persuaded, they could be lobbied heavily by countries that we are not particularly friendly with."

Mathias wanted the bill amended to reflect those concerns, and voted with another Democratic representative and two Republicans against killing the legislation.

Idaho lottery officials have said the game generates about $28 million in sales annually in the state, with schools receiving about $14 million per year.

Money generated from Powerball ticket sales is held in trust until there's a winner. The addition of two new countries and more players is expected to increase jackpot sizes.

"This is a big jackpot game, so players like to have big jackpots," Jeff Anderson, director of the Idaho Lottery, told lawmakers. "One of the ways to do that is to have more players in the game."

Idaho's biggest Powerball winner was a resident of the small southwestern city of Star, who won $220 million in 2005.

Some Idaho lawmakers said they feared that the odds of an Idaho resident winning would be reduced with more players.

But the odds remain the same no matter how many players take part because the odds are not based on the number of players, but the chances of particular numbers being selected. If there are multiple winners, jackpots are split.

Anderson tried to convince lawmakers to make the change in state law by assuring them that a country like China — with a different legal system than the the U.S., Australia and Britain — would never be allowed to join.

Republican Rep. Bruce Skaug said he was troubled about the $3 million annually that is spent on advertising to convince people to play Powerball. He proposed the motion that killed the legislation.

"What we've got is 32 years of Idahoans being able to participate voluntarily in a lottery game of their choice," Anderson said after the vote. "Thirty-two years it's been OK, now it's not. It's very troubling."

Anderson said that Powerball will end in Idaho on Aug. 23 because of the vote.

He warned that besides the money that Idaho schools will lose, the state will face "untold amounts in expenses to unwind all the advertising commitments we have for billboards and point-of-sale materials and everything else. This is going to be very expensive for the people of Idaho."

Officials at the Multi-State Lottery Association in an email declined comment about the Idaho Powerball decision.

AP

Comments

DELotteryPlyr's avatarDELotteryPlyr

WOW, very interesting that Powerball is going international.  Not sure what to think about it - yet.  Wonder how it will be received in those countries.

Todd's avatarTodd

I agree DELotteryPlyr, that's the big news here for me too.  Many people complain about jackpots being won in other states — I wonder how they will feel when the jackpot is won by someone in another country.

Edit: To be clear, the Powerball states have been debating going international with the game for many years.  They also got close to starting a new international game run by MUSL in 2004.  But now we apparently have target dates set, and things have progressed to the point that the states are deciding whether or not to stay in the game.

Big Joey

Should there be a spin off called International Powerball, alongside the regular Powerball that the states now have? Two versions of Powerball, same Matrix, just the International Powerball has International players playing with the state players.

Stack47

Found this article saying PB foreign expansion is still in the discussion stage. Wonder how many other states have laws that restrict joining out of country lottery games. 

Making PB worldwide would certainly boost jackpots and of course sales, but can't imagine what will be said after a series of foreign jackpot winners.

andl's avatarandl

Add another Power Ball like Euro Millions does. I want  to see billion dollar jackpots every few months.

ieatdirt

Hmm so let me see if I understand this correctly:  you’re concerned that other countries might use their proceeds (in their own country) for political purposes you “might not agree with” so you use your political power to take away the game entirely.  Makes perfect sense to me. 

Not to mention that they don’t seem to understand that the number of entries has nothing to do with the odds of winning.  Come on, it’s not a raffle people. 

Sounds like the voters of Idaho need to elect a little more intelligent legislators.

Raven62's avatarRaven62

Who owns the lottery in USA?

The Multi-State Lottery Association (MUSL) is an American non-profit, government-benefit association owned and operated by agreement of its 34-member lotteries. MUSL was created to facilitate the operation of multi-jurisdictional lottery games, most notably Powerball.

noise-gate

Does this mean we get to play in their lotteries at some point in the future?

travelintrucker's avatartravelintrucker

I don't like this at all. I'm surprised that Canadians can play in U.S. lotteries.

paneagle

LOTTERY TAXATION and the LAW OF MONOPOLY          as Idaho points out how the winners are more likely to come from outside and even internationally

Okay first we need to see THE BIG PICTURE, not just our own small view, because 1) LOTTERY IS A Tax FUN'd Raiser for the Government

2) Lottery is not intended to make winners, and the greater pool means bigger ocean, thus greater chance of loss per person, even less chance to win 

3) LOTTERY is by far the worst gambling choice, with the chances of winning are already ridiculous and the payouts hideously small compared to the rate of win. 

 INTERNATIONAL RISK REWARD is increased on both sides, because 4) foreign players outside of chosen countries can win and 5) players rate of win per dollar lost

These problems exist anyway, despite what local states may do, generally making or pointing the real problem with lottery is GREED and MANIPULATION

Therefore, THE REALLY BIG IDEA is this : What is really needed is a complete overhaul of lottery, making it an investment to really help people and nations get out of monopoly conditions, which mostly only benefit the lottery or nation organizers, (government) and turning it into a true ALTRUISM that should be mutually inclusive and cooperative, such as funds for charity and organizations that create real BENEFITS,

THis could be achieved most likely by decreasing the huge prizes but increasing the amount of winners in the middle class spectrum (60K approximately).. But because the greed and law of monopoly is the operating principle, this does not occur, and much of the BALLYHOO about paying for education is hardly equal to the cost and loss to the people.

FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE, I recall is an originating principle, IS IT NOT?     It is time all of you woke up, and see the THORNS in all the ROSEBUDS.

I am paneagle and am giving away SOLARIS winning numbers daily on lotterypost.com with really true and great lists for PLAYERS of any race or nation or opinion.  The reason is because TRUE ALTRUISM is being shared and expressed for the NU AGEIS is here now, this year the first in the 2100 cycle. 

Galactician blogspot will show you more   and videos  on lottery are included by HEY from the treasure Tree by PANEAGLESONG smile

Raven62's avatarRaven62

Quote: Originally posted by Raven62 on Mar 11, 2021

Who owns the lottery in USA?

The Multi-State Lottery Association (MUSL) is an American non-profit, government-benefit association owned and operated by agreement of its 34-member lotteries. MUSL was created to facilitate the operation of multi-jurisdictional lottery games, most notably Powerball.

Members (38):

Arizona Lottery
Arkansas Lottery
Colorado Lottery
Connecticut Lottery Corporation
D.C. Lottery & CGCB
Delaware State Lottery
Florida Lottery
Hoosier Lottery
Idaho Lottery
Iowa Lottery
Kansas Lottery
Kentucky Lottery Corporation
Louisiana Lottery Corporation
Maine Lottery
Minnesota State Lottery
Mississippi Lottery Corporation
Missouri Lottery
Montana Lottery
Nebraska Lottery
New Hampshire Lottery Commission
New Mexico Lottery Authority
New York Lottery
North Carolina Education Lottery
North Dakota Lottery
Oklahoma Lottery
Oregon Lottery
Pennsylvania Lottery
Loteria Electronica de Puerto Rico
Rhode Island Lottery
South Carolina Education Lottery
South Dakota Lottery
Tennessee Education Lottery
Texas Lottery
Vermont Lottery
U.S. Virgin Islands Lottery
Wisconsin Lottery
West Virginia Lottery
Wyoming Lottery

Think's avatarThink

Hmmm... "5-eye" Powerball?

I already have stopped playing as often as I used to because of the terrible odds.  I might play once just before $150 Million and then wait until the cash amount is over a certain amount in the hundreds of millions just because the odds really are awful and nobody ever wins.

When the odds get upped again I will quit totally.

If Mega Millions is smart they will go back to 175 million to 1 odds and  go with a $3 tik/ $2 plier ($5) ticket that people actually win on with jackpots up to $650-$700 million and great second prizes raining down all over every state.  There is little hope of that however.

I don't understand why Idaho doesn't like sending money overseas when there are some states right here in the U.S. which they also probably really object to sending money to.  It really does not make much sense and indicates a lack of depth of analysis on their part.

sully16's avatarsully16

Idaho has many great games, I think the gamblers would support those games, plus the odds are better.

Coffee

PHIL85

I would be completely opposed to the Powerball game adding additional countries. If I'm playing the game [which I do consistently] trying to win the jackpot and it was won by someone in another country I would be very upset. Even if I'm not the winner at least I can take solace in the fact the taxes and spending would benefit a neighboring state.

Bottom line - if other countries join I will permanently cease playing Powerball.

Droptop209's avatarDroptop209

Not a fan of this.  Other countries joining PB

MsBee18

I'm all for international countries joining PB. Idaho isn't a big player to MUSL saleswise. I'll continue to buy my one or two tickets a week. But the odds are near impossible.

treefiddy

Was there any news about this? Huge surprise!

That would be like 3 Californias joining with 30 million in Aus and 60 million in UK.

You're gonna see those jackpots grow a lot faster.

If that wire act is repealed Americans might be able to buy in UK and be anonymous regardless of where they live - let that sink in.Green laugh

Coin Toss's avatarCoin Toss

Whatever foreign country is the first to win a PB jackpot will JJ tell us 'it's always that country?"

Bang Head

JSeattle

Not at all a fan of this.

When I play I expect half of the purchase heading to the jackpot amount and the other money helping schools/States etc. I don't want that money to be sent to some other country where they will see the benefit of the Federal tax dollars on the winner. That is 50% of my spend (jackpot amount) leaving the US. The Feds might stop this.

Email/Call your Congressman. 

One thing not mentioned is when doing this they are considering increasing the already sky high odds by adding numbers.

Bleudog101

My Sister and hubby moved to Idaho some years ago.    She sends me pictures of the newspaper all the time so I could see how unbelievable some of the stories are.   Let's not mention Covid-19 response.

 

This is all new to me....Aussies have their own version of Powerball, right? 

 

Going to have a wait and see on this.   Perhaps the Government won't allow it since they love to have their hand in the till!

luckydoc

Quote: Originally posted by PHIL85 on Mar 11, 2021

I would be completely opposed to the Powerball game adding additional countries. If I'm playing the game [which I do consistently] trying to win the jackpot and it was won by someone in another country I would be very upset. Even if I'm not the winner at least I can take solace in the fact the taxes and spending would benefit a neighboring state.

Bottom line - if other countries join I will permanently cease playing Powerball.

I'm thinking that regardless of whether other countries join or not, PB is going to cost more per ticket soon. They'll try to justify the increase some kind of way. I won't be playing either b/c the tix will be too expensive.

What was the justification for the tickets going up in the first place the last time? Was it the economy? And then once the economy got better the tix price stayed the same.

Bigger jackpots may be true but how many more people actually win now? 

I can't wait to see what happens after those other countries are able to participate. What type of scandal will it be? Just thinking out loud.

rcbbuckeye's avatarrcbbuckeye

I guess I would rather not see other countries included in PB or MM for that matter. I believe the ticket price went to $2 to help jackpots grow larger faster. To combat so called "jackpot fatigue".

I'm probably not like most players in that I really play for second prize, and I play the extra dollar for the powerplay/megaplier. At my age $2-$5 million is plenty for me to live out my days (of course I would welcome the "big kahuna") and the odds for MM/PB second prize is about half the odds for Texas Lotto jackpots.

It will interesting to see if PB does let foreign countries play, if MM follows. 

weshar75's avatarweshar75

I think that I will play my trio tickets for the multi-states games and oregon megabucks even if they have other countries playing.  But if they get rid of powerball and mega millions I think that I will play just the state lotto then.-weshar75

US Flag

KY Floyd's avatarKY Floyd

"so you use your political power to take away the game entirely"

But of course she never tried to do anything that any of her constituents might not agree with, right?

"What we've got is 32 years of Idahoans being able to participate voluntarily in a lottery game of their choice,"

But now he'll work to make sure they can't participate voluntarily if their game of  choice is PB.

"When I play I expect half of the purchase heading to the jackpot amount and the other money helping schools/States etc. I don't want that money to be sent to some other country"

Like the uninformed politicians quoted in the article, it's hard to develop an opinion based on reality if you don't understand the reality.

  • How much money is collected by winners and each state is a simple function of how  many tickets are sold in each state.
  • Lottery results are determined by probability, so adding other states or other countries doesn't really change things for the states and people that are already playing the game (as long as the people in those states continue to buy the same number of tickets). It just increases the total number of tickets that are sold, and what happens in Idaho (or anyplace else) isn't affected by tickets sold somewhere else.
  • Half of the purchase price always stays in the state (or foreign country) where the ticket was sold. It doesn't matter where a winner lives or bought their ticket, or how many tickets were sold somewhere else.
  • In the long term each state can expect to have winners in proportion to the number of tickets they sell. Half of the purchase price is paid out to players, based on the odds of winning the various prizes, so if Idaho sells $28 million worth of PB tickets per year Idahoans can be expected to win $14 million per year as a long term average. The same is true for other states (and other countries).
  • As above, what does change is the total number of tickets sold, but that only affects the jackpot, by making it grow faster

Thanks to probability those jackpots will still have the same average value, but because they grow faster due to larger sales there will be more jackpots won. Sometimes one of those jackpots will be won somewhere outside the US, and other times the jackpot will be won in the US, but the odds of the game mean that each state, and the US as a whole, will continue to have jackpot winners in proportion to tickets sales in the state, and the US as a whole.

In 2020 total PB sales were about $2.85 billion (not counting the extra $1 for power play), so about 1.425 billion tickets were sold. That means that probability suggests 4.9 jackpot winners. If US sales are 1.425 billion tickets in 2021 and adding other countries  results in sales of an additional 1.425 billion tickets in those countries then probability suggests that there will be 4.9 jackpot winners in the US and another 4.9 jackpot winners in other countries. That's the same number of jackpot winners as in 2020, because what happens  elsewhere doesn't affect sales and the result of those sales in the US.

The one thing that probably will change, is either a positive or a negative depending on your perspective. If the jackpots grow faster we can expect the average value of jackpots being offered (though not th value of jackpots that are won) to be larger. That presumably means more tickets will be sold in each state. That's good for state coffers, because they'll be keeping their 50% of a bigger pie. For those who only play when the jackpot gets bigger it means you'll be spending more money on tickets.

I don't know if any of the politicians in Idaho ever got the memo, but the main goal of the lotteries is to increase ticket sales, and that's the only reason MUSL would consider extending PB to other countries. I'm assuming that none of these idiots thought Idaho should stop selling PB when CA and NY joined the game, even though in terms of location and population that had very nearly the same effect as adding the UK and Australia would. Of course this isn't the only example, but these clowns are putting political ideology ahead of sensible public administration.

grwurston's avatargrwurston

Players in Britain and Australia don't pay taxes on their winnings in those countries. Will that apply if they win the PB? If they do have to pay I wonder how they will feel about that.

If it turns they don't have to pay taxes, how will American players react when they find out Britons and Australians can keep their entire winnings while we can't?

mjwinsmith's avatarmjwinsmith

Quote: Originally posted by ieatdirt on Mar 11, 2021

Hmm so let me see if I understand this correctly:  you’re concerned that other countries might use their proceeds (in their own country) for political purposes you “might not agree with” so you use your political power to take away the game entirely.  Makes perfect sense to me. 

Not to mention that they don’t seem to understand that the number of entries has nothing to do with the odds of winning.  Come on, it’s not a raffle people. 

Sounds like the voters of Idaho need to elect a little more intelligent legislators.

Exactly!

Bleudog101

Quote: Originally posted by luckydoc on Mar 11, 2021

I'm thinking that regardless of whether other countries join or not, PB is going to cost more per ticket soon. They'll try to justify the increase some kind of way. I won't be playing either b/c the tix will be too expensive.

What was the justification for the tickets going up in the first place the last time? Was it the economy? And then once the economy got better the tix price stayed the same.

Bigger jackpots may be true but how many more people actually win now? 

I can't wait to see what happens after those other countries are able to participate. What type of scandal will it be? Just thinking out loud.

You may be onto something, IDK!     What I'm curious to see and think the answer is obvious will MM & PB go back to their old matrix and start the drawings @ $40 million and better increases between them?  I seriously doubt it.   

Ranett's avatarRanett

" Jackpot fatigue" = the matrix has become so unattractive, players don't spend as much as they used to. Instead of revamping the game itself and wooing back customers they go after new customers.

I don't play this game that much anymore so this doesn't really affect me.

DELotteryPlyr's avatarDELotteryPlyr

Quote: Originally posted by JSeattle on Mar 11, 2021

Not at all a fan of this.

When I play I expect half of the purchase heading to the jackpot amount and the other money helping schools/States etc. I don't want that money to be sent to some other country where they will see the benefit of the Federal tax dollars on the winner. That is 50% of my spend (jackpot amount) leaving the US. The Feds might stop this.

Email/Call your Congressman. 

One thing not mentioned is when doing this they are considering increasing the already sky high odds by adding numbers.

Good point, I also dont like the idea of America losing out on the tax benefit if won outside of the states.  And I think congress would agree, will be contacting my rep's both state & federal.

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