Ruling by Justice Dept. opens a door on online gambling

Dec 25, 2011, 2:33 pm (56 comments)

Online Gambling

2012 may the year of widespread Internet lottery ticket sales

WASHINGTON, D.C. — The Justice Department has reversed its long-held opposition to many forms of Internet gambling, removing a big legal obstacle for states that want to sanction online gambling to help fix their budget deficits.

The legal opinion, issued by the department's office of legal counsel in September but made public on Friday, came in response to requests by New York and Illinois to clarify whether the Wire Act of 1961, which prohibits wagering over telecommunications systems that cross state or national borders, prevented those states from using the Internet to sell lottery tickets to adults within their own borders.

(See Related Links at end of news story to see the full text of the Justice Dept. legal opinion.)

Although the opinion dealt specifically with lottery tickets, it opened the door for states to allow Internet poker and other forms of online betting that do not involve sports. Many states are interested in online gambling as a way to raise tax revenue.

New York has offered an online subscription service since 2005 that allows state residents to enter a string of Lotto or Mega Millions drawings.

The director of the New York Lottery, Gordon Medenica, said Saturday that the lottery had built a broader online gaming system for New York, but that the contractor that put the system together was wary about moving forward because it feared it could get into legal trouble.

"We've been waiting for a couple years," Mr. Medenica said in a telephone interview. "We're thrilled that this ruling has now come down and confirmed that our legal analysis was correct all along."

As a result of the new policy, New York Lottery officials said they planned to add two additional jackpot games, Powerball and Sweet Million, to its current online lottery subscription service, and would allow New York residents to buy single-draw tickets online for the first time.

Mr. Medenica said it would take several months for the lottery to finalize the new offerings, and he said officials would "take a very cautious initial approach" in rolling out additional online options.

Michael Jones, the superintendent of the Illinois Lottery, said the request for clarification was prompted by research the state commissioned several years ago that indicated online sales could drive up participation. "When you look at the Internet, which is what everybody uses these days to buy everything, it seemed like a very, very logical thing to use the Internet to increase the player base," Mr. Jones said. "States were in dire financial problems — the ability to use the lottery to raise revenue in a nontax way was a significant thing for states to do."

He also said that online sales would enable the lottery to regulate purchases. "Right now we can't guard against someone walking into a lottery retailer and buying too many tickets and behaving excessively," Mr. Jones said. "Now with credit card purchases, we can guard against excessive play."

Illinois could begin selling lottery tickets online in as soon as three months, he said.

The District of Columbia and Nevada have both approved limited forms of Internet gambling, and New Jersey has been considering legislation allowing sports betting and other forms of Internet gambling.

Steven Grossman, the Massachusetts state treasurer and the chairman of the state's Lottery Commission, called the opinion a "turbocharged opportunity to engage new markets."

"This will put additional pressure on Congress and others to allow online poker and other Internet gambling," Mr. Grossman said.

Estimates of the size of the online gambling industry vary widely, from as low as $6 billion to as high as $100 billion. But even at the lower end, Mr. Grossman said, "that's tens of billions of dollars that goes offshore."

In a separate request in July, Senators Harry Reid, Democrat of Nevada, and Jon Kyl, Republican of Arizona, asked the Justice Department to clarify its position on Internet gambling, seeking either to affirm that federal law prohibits gambling over the Internet or to make sure that Congress has a role in drafting any expansion of online betting.

In a reply letter that was also issued Friday, the Justice Department said that while the new policy "differs from the department's previous interpretation of the Wire Act, it reflects the department's position in Congressional testimony at the time the Wire Act was passed in 1961."

The new policy merely reverses the Justice Department's longstanding position that all forms of online gambling are illegal in the United States. It does not necessarily pave the way for national rules governing online gambling.

But experts in gambling law said Saturday that the new policy does imply that states can band together to allow gambling across state borders. The exception would be online sports betting, which is explicitly prohibited under federal law.

"The next step," said Mark Hichar, a partner and head of the gaming law group at the law firm Edwards Wildman in Boston, "could be for states to enter into compacts with each other to have interstate Internet wagering," as some do now for horse racing.

The decision was cheered by states that have been contemplating gambling for the first time. But some gambling interest groups, like the American Gaming Association, which represents casino operators and makers of gambling equipment, said the opinion makes clear the need for a federal law establishing consistent regulatory standards.

"This is quite a Christmas present," said I. Nelson Rose, a distinguished senior professor at Whittier Law School and a consultant to gambling companies and governments. "It says, 'Keep it in your state and it's legal.' Given the continuing budget crisis, and so many states looking for ways to raise money, it's really a major decision."

Virginia A. Seitz, an assistant attorney general in the Justice Department's office of legal counsel, wrote in the opinion that the prohibition in the Wire Act of using interstate communications for gambling applies only to betting on a "sporting event or contest."

As long as the gambling operator and the customer are within the same state, the opinion says, and the betting activity does not include sporting events, a state's own laws apply. Another federal law, the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006, made it illegal for financial institutions to process payments for online wagers.

Taken together, the two laws allowed the Justice Department to invoke its authority over interstate communications as a means of blocking all Internet gambling.

Online gambling has been a focus in the Justice Department for years, but it burst into public view in April, when federal prosecutors charged the operators of three of the most popular online poker sites with fraud and money laundering.

The three sites, Full Tilt Poker, PokerStars and Absolute Poker, are based in Antigua and the Isle of Man, where online gambling is legal. That had made it difficult for American authorities to crack down on the operations, which had millions of United States customers.

But the Justice Department charged that the companies had used United States banks to process their transactions, violating the 2006 law that governed payment processing.

Those payment restrictions do not apply to transactions within a single state, however. With the ruling that the Wire Act applies only to sports betting, the way is clear for in-state online poker and other games.

Some gambling experts believed that the Justice Department's position that the Wire Act prevented any Internet gambling conflicted with a federal appeals court decision, and therefore the new opinion simply confirmed what was already law.

But states have been reluctant to rely on the appeals court decision, handed down in 2002 by the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit in New Orleans, because, in addition to the Justice Department's continued crackdown, other federal and state court opinions offered conflicting directions.

The Justice Department previously tried to crack down on Internet gambling by going after companies that facilitated advertising for the gambling sites. In December 2007, Microsoft, Google and Yahoo paid a combined $31.5 million to settle federal charges that they promoted illegal gambling by serving ads for the gambling operations to other Web sites.

New York Times

Comments

ftdsn244

So if i am understanding this right this is basically only going to allow you to buy tickets online to your own state lottery unless all states agree together to allow cross boarder purchases?

Littleoldlady's avatarLittleoldlady

Yep..I think it is about time that US lotteries start having online play.  It makes sense.  Now if they will just clarify the banking part..I will be ready to go..

tmead's avatartmead

The quicker, the better.

faber98

being able to buy just lottery tickets on line is hardly a significant breakthrough. what was it difficult to go out and buy them in the normal fashion. does anybody care if the pools are higher  because of this. i don't think so. you should have to make an effort to play the lottery with cash only. people will get into too much trouble if allowed to buy them with a credit card. the credit card issuers aren't going to like it at all when the defaults start to pile up. there will be snafus galore when someone claims they bought a winning ticket on line and didn't print it, or didn't buy it before drawing closed or some other type of mistake on their part or the sellers computer malfunction. it is working the way it is, why change it. if you're too lazy to go out and buy one you shouldn't be allowed to win it.

Littleoldlady's avatarLittleoldlady

Quote: Originally posted by faber98 on Dec 25, 2011

being able to buy just lottery tickets on line is hardly a significant breakthrough. what was it difficult to go out and buy them in the normal fashion. does anybody care if the pools are higher  because of this. i don't think so. you should have to make an effort to play the lottery with cash only. people will get into too much trouble if allowed to buy them with a credit card. the credit card issuers aren't going to like it at all when the defaults start to pile up. there will be snafus galore when someone claims they bought a winning ticket on line and didn't print it, or didn't buy it before drawing closed or some other type of mistake on their part or the sellers computer malfunction. it is working the way it is, why change it. if you're too lazy to go out and buy one you shouldn't be allowed to win it.

You act like folks are going to go crazy buying lottery tickets online.  That is just plain silly.  Lottery tickets are sold online in other countries and this one should let folks buy them online also.  If your weekly play is just 5-10.00 I am sure most intelligent folks can manage that.  Credit card companies have tightened their qualifications so a lot of folks won't be eligible to get one anyway.  Besides if I don't stop by the bank to get my cash and use one of those "other" atms..it still costs me 4-5.00 to make a withdrawal. (total).  why should I pay that when I could be playing online with no extra cost.

TOOT515's avatarTOOT515

Everyone is different. Some people like to play small, some people like to play big, playing online is convenient for most people..  Time change, people change, technology change, get use to it!  Faber, if you're fine with going to the store spending $2 - $5 a week winning $40 to $80 then that's your business.  The majority rules, and I believe most people would prefer to play online.   LETS DO IT!!!

myeyes2020's avatarmyeyes2020

I'm ready -I'm ready ;  let's get ohio:  ohio-michigan, ohio-indiana, ohio-kentucky, ohio-ny, OHIO - TRI STATE, I'm Ready.

ftdsn244

Faber- that is a pretty dumb post my friend, and it is people like you that try and keep this thing from getting off the ground. Just because some people may not have control it should not ruin it for everyone, there are bad drivers out there..should we ban driving? And also it is not about being lazy, if you would pay attention there is some money to be made on this site except most peoples numbers work with all states and not just your own.

louise black

Quote: Originally posted by ftdsn244 on Dec 25, 2011

Faber- that is a pretty dumb post my friend, and it is people like you that try and keep this thing from getting off the ground. Just because some people may not have control it should not ruin it for everyone, there are bad drivers out there..should we ban driving? And also it is not about being lazy, if you would pay attention there is some money to be made on this site except most peoples numbers work with all states and not just your own.

I Agree!

HiFi's avatarHiFi

i dont like this because when people buy tickets at the store they also will buy other things an it helps out the small business owner.  i dont own a business but i think its good for the economy and my community.  sure i can buy lottery tickets online an save money on gas but u have to think of the bigger picture.

BobP's avatarBobP


Why won't our government admit we're living in a police state and get it over with already?   We're the most controled "free" country ever, can't even spend our hard earned cash freely. 

The states have a vested interest in keeping all gambling within their borders. 

We the lottery players have a vested interest in playing the best games where ever they may be, whether they are lowest odds,  two tickets for a dollar games or highest jackpot.

The positives with online play is saving gas and more days to play without a trip to the store.

OPEN UP ALL THE GAMES TO US ! ! !

BobP

ConstantlyB's avatarConstantlyB

Quote: Originally posted by BobP on Dec 26, 2011


Why won't our government admit we're living in a police state and get it over with already?   We're the most controled "free" country ever, can't even spend our hard earned cash freely. 

The states have a vested interest in keeping all gambling within their borders. 

We the lottery players have a vested interest in playing the best games where ever they may be, whether they are lowest odds,  two tickets for a dollar games or highest jackpot.

The positives with online play is saving gas and more days to play without a trip to the store.

OPEN UP ALL THE GAMES TO US ! ! !

BobP

Good morning everyone....I hope ya'll had a great

 holiday weekendYEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

In total agreement with you on this note BobP.....I would like to purchase tickets in any state for any game if I so choose.

TnTicketlosers's avatarTnTicketlosers

As it should be,I rather play any state than here,so would other Tennesseans..I want to play Kentucky Or Georgia,,,,why do I have to play here if I dont want to.????????????

TnTicketlosers's avatarTnTicketlosers

Well I guess I will keep driving to those states,but that is allowed.

Lottery Playa

If States want to fix their budgets.... they should STOP spending money they don't have. Government is always looking for a way to find more revenue because they can't stop borrowing for things that they do not have any business being involved with. Instead of finding more ways for revenue, they should find more ways to be less intrusive in the lives of the people instead of viewing us as a resource that can be tapped at will for their failure.

These States and their budget woes make my blood boil. It demonstrates the waste of what government has become. I'm NOT advocating abolishing government, I'm advocating a return to sane, sound, smaller, less powerful, less intrusive, less violative and last but not least, a government who has the up most respect for OUR INALIENABLE RIGHTS... Rights that are not even mentioned, let alone defended, but never the less, rights that are supposed to be NON violative!

I don't know about most of you on this board. But as time goes on, I feel less and less free. Someone from the government is always there asking for more and more of us, financially! When the role of government is to preserve Liberty, not to be one of the biggest violators of it, they sure are doing an awesome job at destroying our Liberty all in the name of security! Government produces nothing yet soaks up resources of such a behemoth quantity! Money that was taken by force all in the name of providing what? Good government! Far far far from it!

As Benjamin Franklin stated:

"Anyone who would give up any Liberty for any temporary security, deserves neither Liberty nor security and will ultimately loose both!"

I happen to agree with that!

If Liberty is the purpose of govermnet, i'd say it has failed at it's purpose. And I blame us the people for that failure. 

Daniel Webster, the son of Noah Webster stated on June 1, 1837 stated the following:


“I apprehend no danger to our country from a foreign foe . . . Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger. I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing. Make them intelligent, and they will be vigilant; give them the means of detecting the wrong, and they will apply the remedy.” 

So, in closing, anyone who thinks government needs more money to "solve" a budget crisis needs to have their head examined! Government is the largest abuser of Financial Liberty out there. There's a fine for everything now a days! Government needs to stop doing more and start doing less. Our lives, Our Liberty and our Financial well being depends on government doing less! And like I said, if Liberty is the end game, the government is doing an extremely poor job, and we only have ourselves to blame for the incompetence of those "officials" who "claim" to represent us. They more so represent tyranny than Liberty, that's a no brainer. And as James Madison has pointed out, "Knowledge will forever govern ignorance: And a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives."

LottoGuyBC's avatarLottoGuyBC

It's a PLUS in certain ways like:

if you're snowed

if you're out in nowheresville  

if you're not going to meet the cutoff

being able to buy online is definately a PLUS Cheers

ftdsn244

Hate to be Mr. negative but it is stupid to just legalize your own state only. But from what i read it is possible to play cross boarder but this is going to be up to the states themselves.

ftdsn244

Yeah i agree, I think if they only plan to let you buy at your own state it is a waiste but if they allow all states then I am all for it.

Stack47

Quote: Originally posted by HiFi on Dec 25, 2011

i dont like this because when people buy tickets at the store they also will buy other things an it helps out the small business owner.  i dont own a business but i think its good for the economy and my community.  sure i can buy lottery tickets online an save money on gas but u have to think of the bigger picture.

Apparently ftdns is talking about a ruling by the Justice Department https://www.lotterypost.com/news/240464 and it's about online gambling casino and poker type games. It's possible a few state lotteries might group together and form a poker site, but the ruling was on a state lottery selling subscriptions for lotto games.

If horse racing off track betting is legal in your state than you can already legally bet tracks all over the world online.

As for the impact of selling any lottery game tickets online to area economics, for years lotteries have provided future play on all their online games. Even though the price of gas has settled around $3.25 a gallon, people are still doing one or two stop shopping so online lottery sales will have little or no affect on area economics.

dpoly1's avatardpoly1

They want more taxes!

Cletu$2's avatarCletu$2

Personaly,I don't trust the internet enough to  spend my money online.If others wish to,thats their business,but I'll remain old fashioned and just trot down to the corner store or gas station and buy my lottery tickets.I feel like its a much safer option.

dpoly1's avatardpoly1

I am not sure that I want an electronic record of my lottery purchases. I am sure that they would track down every win, no matter how small!

Red Devil ← Government, they consider us sources of income, not constituents to be served!

peppy007

Im definitely I i can buy tickets from other states. Especially when their jackpot is high.

Littleoldlady's avatarLittleoldlady

Quote: Originally posted by HiFi on Dec 25, 2011

i dont like this because when people buy tickets at the store they also will buy other things an it helps out the small business owner.  i dont own a business but i think its good for the economy and my community.  sure i can buy lottery tickets online an save money on gas but u have to think of the bigger picture.

This is silly too.  People go to the store to buy those other things..they don't necessarily go to the store to buy lottery tickets.  I am sure if they continue to sell beer, gas, milk, sodas, bread and cigaerettes they won't go out of business.  That is where they make their money ..they only get about .05 for each ticket they sell.

Littleoldlady's avatarLittleoldlady

I don't know what all of the opposition is about.  I am looking at the BIG picture..Billions of US dollars are going outside of our country each year to pay for gambling at offshore betting places.  If the US would open up online betting for its citizens, then maybe we could cut those billions going outside the country by more than half.  They need to find a way to keep our money in our country.

dpoly1's avatardpoly1

Quote: Originally posted by Littleoldlady on Dec 26, 2011

I don't know what all of the opposition is about.  I am looking at the BIG picture..Billions of US dollars are going outside of our country each year to pay for gambling at offshore betting places.  If the US would open up online betting for its citizens, then maybe we could cut those billions going outside the country by more than half.  They need to find a way to keep our money in our country.

The easiest way to keep money on shore is to cut taxes. The Mellon Tax cuts of the 1920's did just that. Most people don't understand the law of diminishing returns as it applies to taxes!

Government is most often the cause of economic problems, not the solution! Stooges

david1691

Quote: Originally posted by ConstantlyB on Dec 26, 2011

Good morning everyone....I hope ya'll had a great

 holiday weekendYEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

In total agreement with you on this note BobP.....I would like to purchase tickets in any state for any game if I so choose.

I agree 100 percent with both of you as well.  I made a statement a while back about this.  If people can bet on horse races from other states, then the same should apply to state lotteries.  I personally would play other jackpot games than what is offered here in Pennsylvania.  New York's Sweet Millions or Win For Life would be some of my picks.  Give the people what they want.

For those against this idea just keep in mind that this is just another option to buy tickets.  I play no matter what.

rdgrnr's avatarrdgrnr

Quote: Originally posted by BobP on Dec 26, 2011


Why won't our government admit we're living in a police state and get it over with already?   We're the most controled "free" country ever, can't even spend our hard earned cash freely. 

The states have a vested interest in keeping all gambling within their borders. 

We the lottery players have a vested interest in playing the best games where ever they may be, whether they are lowest odds,  two tickets for a dollar games or highest jackpot.

The positives with online play is saving gas and more days to play without a trip to the store.

OPEN UP ALL THE GAMES TO US ! ! !

BobP

I Agree!   Protectionism kills competition, the lack of which in turn kills creativity and excellence. 

When something is "the only game in town" it usually sucks, big time.

Think's avatarThink

Yawwwwwwnnnnnnn...

This is a big yawwnner for me.  As far as I'm concerned, if I cant buy tickets from other states, this is no big deal.

If I am in a state that is in the Megamillions pool or a in a state that is in the Powerball pool then I should be able to buy ANY kind of tickets I want from those other multi-state pool members online.

YURAN's avatarYURAN

I like Powerball & Megamillions because they have huge jackpot amount. What about completely open doors for cross-international lottery play? If U.S. to allow for example Ukrainian peoples make wager in Powerball/Megamillions then your states make more revenue. It's great, right?I Agree!

rdgrnr's avatarrdgrnr

Quote: Originally posted by YURAN on Dec 26, 2011

I like Powerball & Megamillions because they have huge jackpot amount. What about completely open doors for cross-international lottery play? If U.S. to allow for example Ukrainian peoples make wager in Powerball/Megamillions then your states make more revenue. It's great, right?I Agree!

Sounds like a great idea to me, Yuran. Thumbs Up

faber98

Quote: Originally posted by rdgrnr on Dec 26, 2011

Sounds like a great idea to me, Yuran. Thumbs Up

no, it's not a good idea at all. do you really want someone from the unkraine winning your state lottery or mega millions or powerball. also what if you want anonomity if you win. you cannot get it since they will have a credit or debit card record of you buying it.  this won't allow you to sell the ticket to someone else if you so choose for whatever reason and there are many. what if the irs thinks you owe them more than you think you owe. they will just grab it from you off the top. i'm thinking more of smaller jackpots that will be confiscated 50-250k 2nd prize types that you don't want the govt. in your pocket off the top. you will lose control of your own fortune if you buy online. give me a ticket that cannot be traced anytime over one that they know about right off the bat. let's face it everyone isn't an honest joe out there. the prizes are big enough now without letting everyone in the world in. let them play in their own country and stay out of ours.

rdgrnr's avatarrdgrnr

Quote: Originally posted by faber98 on Dec 26, 2011

no, it's not a good idea at all. do you really want someone from the unkraine winning your state lottery or mega millions or powerball. also what if you want anonomity if you win. you cannot get it since they will have a credit or debit card record of you buying it.  this won't allow you to sell the ticket to someone else if you so choose for whatever reason and there are many. what if the irs thinks you owe them more than you think you owe. they will just grab it from you off the top. i'm thinking more of smaller jackpots that will be confiscated 50-250k 2nd prize types that you don't want the govt. in your pocket off the top. you will lose control of your own fortune if you buy online. give me a ticket that cannot be traced anytime over one that they know about right off the bat. let's face it everyone isn't an honest joe out there. the prizes are big enough now without letting everyone in the world in. let them play in their own country and stay out of ours.

I like Ukrainians.

Their Chicken Kiev is superb.

faber98

Quote: Originally posted by rdgrnr on Dec 26, 2011

I like Ukrainians.

Their Chicken Kiev is superb.

sure, ridge. lately you've become a comedian. i used to give you a modicum of credit for being somewhat knowledgeable. you hate politicians and yet you want to play right into their hands by letting them know who won right off the bat, thus allowing them to pilfer your prize in order to buy new draperies for the corner office with your money. everyone here thinks their going to win the big one and they won't be happy unless it's 100 million. but more realistically they are going to win a 2nd or 3rd tier prize. let's use 5000.00 for example. do you really want the state or fed. govt calling you up and saying congratulations on your win.  we will send you the check minus the back taxes that you owe. expect a check for 259.00 if that's the amount they deem that you owe. many people do not cash their lower tier prizes just for this reason. this is why they are going to allow online wagering in order to have a tighter big brother reign on you. you will not be able to dodge them if you buy online pure and simple. get your lazy asses out to the store and protect your anonomity. also do you really want some oil rich saudi arabian buying 20k worth of tickets and ultimately funneling that money to some foreign govt coffer. it would discourage me if kept happening, the jackpots are big enough with allowing some greasy oil rich foreigners in.

haymaker's avatarhaymaker

Quote: Originally posted by rdgrnr on Dec 26, 2011

I like Ukrainians.

Their Chicken Kiev is superb.

one of my best freinds is a uke,

but i don't want to share lotteries w/ other countries,

maybe you were just kidding,i think his parents were from kiev.

faber98

summing it up here are some reasons not to allow online wagering.  1. if the prize is between 600.00 and 5000.00 it will go onto your income without you having any control over it. it is wiser to pay someone unemployed 10% to cash it for you since they will not be liable for any taxes. if you purchase the ticket in a store there is no way they can prove it was yours. everyone does this because they know they have lost more in the past than they won this particular time so they feel justified in not owning up to the tax liability. 2. this also protects anyone from finding out that you won to avoid the leeches who want a piece of it. 3. forget about foreigners being allowed in for previously stated reasons. who wants some iranian big whig who extorts money from their citizens  playing your state lottery and whisking it off to their country that hates us. 3. they call it a state lottery for a reason. it is intended primarily for residents of that particular state to play and win it. if an out of state person happens to be in your state spending money in your state, then it is difficult to begrudge them playing your lottery. the numbers of these players would be microscopic anyway. good luck to them and thanks for buying gas and food in our state. 4. you'd be helping an unemployed person if you let them cash it and get their cut and at the same time saving yourself from extra tax liability. or would you rather help some crooked politician (and they all are) line his(her)pockets. go ahead and buy your traceable lottery tickets online if you want because they are going to allow this soon because they know they are losing a significant amount of tax revenue since there is no proof of ownership if you buy a ticket at a store. this is why they are doing it. don't fall for the larger jackpot ruse because most of the payoffs (lower tier) prizes are fixed amounts anyway. the likelihood that you hit the real big one is nothing more than a dream.

YURAN's avatarYURAN

Quote: Originally posted by faber98 on Dec 26, 2011

no, it's not a good idea at all. do you really want someone from the unkraine winning your state lottery or mega millions or powerball. also what if you want anonomity if you win. you cannot get it since they will have a credit or debit card record of you buying it.  this won't allow you to sell the ticket to someone else if you so choose for whatever reason and there are many. what if the irs thinks you owe them more than you think you owe. they will just grab it from you off the top. i'm thinking more of smaller jackpots that will be confiscated 50-250k 2nd prize types that you don't want the govt. in your pocket off the top. you will lose control of your own fortune if you buy online. give me a ticket that cannot be traced anytime over one that they know about right off the bat. let's face it everyone isn't an honest joe out there. the prizes are big enough now without letting everyone in the world in. let them play in their own country and stay out of ours.

Interesting opinion... But we allow anyone to play our Ukrainian lotteries via Internet. This option is available more than one year long. What happens? Nothing unusual. In our lotteries plays many peoples from Belarus, Russia and lot of other international. NO changes in prizes. All as usual even BEFORE they applying online wager.

Even we have man from Los Angeles, that won Superloto Superdraw UAH 250 000... And also we have another jackpot won via Internet into Loto Maxima game. Maybe that man was not Ukrainians. Because jackpot not claimed yet.

YURAN's avatarYURAN

Opps. Man from LA, California come to Kiev and played at retailers store. This man really born in Mariupol, Ukraine. Work in LA. He is a rock-misician.

"From Los Angeles with love"

YURAN's avatarYURAN

And also interesting info. Online sales accounted only 5% from total tickets sales. Another 95% peoples go to retailers. Why? Because they want real ticket which they can touch and feel.

rdgrnr's avatarrdgrnr

I think you guys might be getting Ukraine and Belarus mixed up.

Belarusians are the meanies - Ukrainians are happy shiny people.

YURAN's avatarYURAN

Quote: Originally posted by rdgrnr on Dec 26, 2011

I think you guys might be getting Ukraine and Belarus mixed up.

Belarusians are the meanies - Ukrainians are happy shiny people.

If you like soccer game then come in summer 2012 at EURO-2012 Championship which take place in Poland and Ukraine.

ftdsn244

Let me play all states pick 4 online and I am happy, get a <snip> site up and running and you guys can have your fun with the megamillions and so on..

This post has been automatically changed by the Lottery Post computer system to remove inappropriate content and/or spam.

ronki

Ues to play Euro Millions  Spains El Gordo  But Big Brother shut that down you can't use any of your Credit Cards for online gambling SOOOO what is the Differences.What happen to Feedom  we are FREE only when we DIE thats when.No Pity!

faber98

another thing if they allow interstate online lottery play any intelligent player is going to play in the state with the highest jackpot (lets exclude powerball and megamillions since that is multi-state anyway) this will take away from the weaker states that have lower tier prizes since there is only so much individual lottery discretionary money to throw away anyway. who can blame anyone for going for say idaho's state lottery instead of their own if the jackpot is higher. meanwhile state with lower jackpots will suffer. it will be too easy to play an out of state lottery if this is implemented (and it will) for a more obtrusive identification of winners by state tax procuers. if your physically in another state and want to purchase a hard copy ticket by all means do so. at least you will be spending money in that state. doing it online will destroy the smaller games in the states that offer less.

Guest

it figures, when they need money, then it becomes legal. what a load of crappola !  government idiots being themselves i guess.

unseen's avatarunseen

I can't believe someone would post some BS about someone from the Ukraine winning Mega Millions or Powerball?  Do you realize the odds of winning either of those games?  If that's the case why do people play online poker in tournaments with players from Europe and everywhere else?  I could care less if they allowed aliens from another planet to play.

maringoman's avatarmaringoman

The Chinese would play? If their government would let them, I see a situation where 9 of every 10 jackpots would end up somewhere in China.

The Chinese population is about 4 times the US population and given the rise of incomes over there I can see jackpot after jackpot being won by some Chinese guy.

You don't think so? NewYorkers win jackpots more often than other states because they play more. Now imagine if only 10% of Chinese citizens decided to spend $1 on tonights mega millions. Thats 130,000,000 tickets on China alone. Oh year, they would win so many jackpots, most of us would play pick 4 and pick 3 games.

Selling lottery online might be good but letting citizens of other countries not in US play is not so good.

YURAN's avatarYURAN

Quote: Originally posted by maringoman on Dec 27, 2011

The Chinese would play? If their government would let them, I see a situation where 9 of every 10 jackpots would end up somewhere in China.

The Chinese population is about 4 times the US population and given the rise of incomes over there I can see jackpot after jackpot being won by some Chinese guy.

You don't think so? NewYorkers win jackpots more often than other states because they play more. Now imagine if only 10% of Chinese citizens decided to spend $1 on tonights mega millions. Thats 130,000,000 tickets on China alone. Oh year, they would win so many jackpots, most of us would play pick 4 and pick 3 games.

Selling lottery online might be good but letting citizens of other countries not in US play is not so good.

The Chinese cannot play in US lotteries even if they wish. Because they have very limited internet.

Mark Haigh

Quote: Originally posted by faber98 on Dec 26, 2011

no, it's not a good idea at all. do you really want someone from the unkraine winning your state lottery or mega millions or powerball. also what if you want anonomity if you win. you cannot get it since they will have a credit or debit card record of you buying it.  this won't allow you to sell the ticket to someone else if you so choose for whatever reason and there are many. what if the irs thinks you owe them more than you think you owe. they will just grab it from you off the top. i'm thinking more of smaller jackpots that will be confiscated 50-250k 2nd prize types that you don't want the govt. in your pocket off the top. you will lose control of your own fortune if you buy online. give me a ticket that cannot be traced anytime over one that they know about right off the bat. let's face it everyone isn't an honest joe out there. the prizes are big enough now without letting everyone in the world in. let them play in their own country and stay out of ours.

1. People outside the US are already buying Mega Millions and Powerball tickets. There are lots of online ticket sellers more than happy to charge people triple the normal ticket price!

2. If you sell a ticket to someone else, aren't you liable for tax on that income anyway..? And unless you're planning on getting paid in used dollar bills it's pretty visible the moment it hits your bank account.

rdgrnr's avatarrdgrnr

Quote: Originally posted by faber98 on Dec 27, 2011

another thing if they allow interstate online lottery play any intelligent player is going to play in the state with the highest jackpot (lets exclude powerball and megamillions since that is multi-state anyway) this will take away from the weaker states that have lower tier prizes since there is only so much individual lottery discretionary money to throw away anyway. who can blame anyone for going for say idaho's state lottery instead of their own if the jackpot is higher. meanwhile state with lower jackpots will suffer. it will be too easy to play an out of state lottery if this is implemented (and it will) for a more obtrusive identification of winners by state tax procuers. if your physically in another state and want to purchase a hard copy ticket by all means do so. at least you will be spending money in that state. doing it online will destroy the smaller games in the states that offer less.

You seem to be arguing against competition.

Competition doesn't destroy, it makes things better.

If Tennessee players had the option of playing online in other states, Tennessee would have two options - make their lottery better or lose the revenue. Which do you think they would choose?

If Tennessee players all started playing in states with real ball drawings, Tennessee would drop the computers real quick.

It's the only way Tennessee Lottery officials would ever pay any attention to what the players want.

As it stands now they just tell us to STFU because they know most players aren't going to drive to another state to play.

Let states compete for lottery dollars and you'll see the best lotteries ever.

rdgrnr's avatarrdgrnr

Quote: Originally posted by YURAN on Dec 26, 2011

If you like soccer game then come in summer 2012 at EURO-2012 Championship which take place in Poland and Ukraine.

I'm not a soccer fan but thank you anyway, Yuran.

Stack47

Quote: Originally posted by rdgrnr on Dec 27, 2011

You seem to be arguing against competition.

Competition doesn't destroy, it makes things better.

If Tennessee players had the option of playing online in other states, Tennessee would have two options - make their lottery better or lose the revenue. Which do you think they would choose?

If Tennessee players all started playing in states with real ball drawings, Tennessee would drop the computers real quick.

It's the only way Tennessee Lottery officials would ever pay any attention to what the players want.

As it stands now they just tell us to STFU because they know most players aren't going to drive to another state to play.

Let states compete for lottery dollars and you'll see the best lotteries ever.

"Competition doesn't destroy, it makes things better."

I Agree! and think about all the unique games in other states that we would like to play without traveling 100s of miles.

"As it stands now they just tell us to STFU because they know most players aren't going to drive to another state to play."

On the down side there are currently laws in some states prohibiting their residence from gambling online. As greedy as the TN lottery and the people running the educational fund where the profits go seem to be, I just can't see giving up a possible huge portion of their current player base by allowing them to purchase other state lottery tickets online.

Will the laws be repealed to benefit the players or changed to just allow online gambling run by the state lottery within the state borders?

faber98

it should restricted to your own state. apparently tenn has a bad lottery that no one likes for whatever reason. if they allow interstate online play tenn will have to upgrade theirs or it would probably become extinct. other state have more appealing types of games so who can blame tennesseeites for wanting online interstate options. there's only so much money you can spend playing the games anyway so maybe it would make sense to restrict online play to your state only or maybe any bordering state but not beyond. just remember you and only you will be liable for tax tickets if you play online. that alone is enough reason not to do it.

Stack47

Quote: Originally posted by faber98 on Dec 28, 2011

it should restricted to your own state. apparently tenn has a bad lottery that no one likes for whatever reason. if they allow interstate online play tenn will have to upgrade theirs or it would probably become extinct. other state have more appealing types of games so who can blame tennesseeites for wanting online interstate options. there's only so much money you can spend playing the games anyway so maybe it would make sense to restrict online play to your state only or maybe any bordering state but not beyond. just remember you and only you will be liable for tax tickets if you play online. that alone is enough reason not to do it.

"if they allow interstate online play tenn will have to upgrade theirs or it would probably become extinct."

Yep and I believe that's the point rdgnr was trying to make. The pick-3 players living near the Tennessee/Kentucky border probably now buy their pick-3 tickets in Kentucky because of the $600 to $1 payoff. The KY players near the KY/WVA border might be playing WVA's Cash 25 and the WVA players might be playing KY's 3 Line Lotto. When I lived in Ohio I bought Quinto tickets in Pennsylvania.

Savvy Lottery directors will develop new games or revamp old games with lower percentage house racks to take advantage of the huge volume potential from online interstate play. When was the last time you heard anyone on LP say "I wish I could play the Tennessee Lottery games?

"just remember you and only you will be liable for tax tickets if you play online. that alone is enough reason not to do it."

Off track horse racing betting is legal and been around for well over 20 years. Some online sites have legally taken bets on tracks all over the world for almost 10 years. If online players win any bet that exceeds the IRS limit, they are given a W-2G just like the players at the live racing tracks. And online players can get a record of their year's betting if they choose to go long form and deduct their gambling losses. Off track betting is exactly the same whether it's done in an off track betting parlor, at a race track, or in privacy of your home. The same can easily be done with Lottery games.

You're apparently against competition, free enterprise, and allowing adults to spend their gambling money any way the choose.

faber98

Quote: Originally posted by Stack47 on Dec 29, 2011

"if they allow interstate online play tenn will have to upgrade theirs or it would probably become extinct."

Yep and I believe that's the point rdgnr was trying to make. The pick-3 players living near the Tennessee/Kentucky border probably now buy their pick-3 tickets in Kentucky because of the $600 to $1 payoff. The KY players near the KY/WVA border might be playing WVA's Cash 25 and the WVA players might be playing KY's 3 Line Lotto. When I lived in Ohio I bought Quinto tickets in Pennsylvania.

Savvy Lottery directors will develop new games or revamp old games with lower percentage house racks to take advantage of the huge volume potential from online interstate play. When was the last time you heard anyone on LP say "I wish I could play the Tennessee Lottery games?

"just remember you and only you will be liable for tax tickets if you play online. that alone is enough reason not to do it."

Off track horse racing betting is legal and been around for well over 20 years. Some online sites have legally taken bets on tracks all over the world for almost 10 years. If online players win any bet that exceeds the IRS limit, they are given a W-2G just like the players at the live racing tracks. And online players can get a record of their year's betting if they choose to go long form and deduct their gambling losses. Off track betting is exactly the same whether it's done in an off track betting parlor, at a race track, or in privacy of your home. The same can easily be done with Lottery games.

You're apparently against competition, free enterprise, and allowing adults to spend their gambling money any way the choose.

untrue, you can go to an otb and hit a tax ticket and get someone else to cash it for you. online though you are stuck with it. same for the lottery, better off with real convenience store ticket if you feel the need to avoid the taxes on lower tier hits.  and the question of whether tenn would revamp their lottery or allow it to die if residents went out of state is justified. it would make sense for them to revamp it, but would they just try to get the players who don't play online or live in the center of the state and had no choice. can't answer for the tenn lottery officials decision on that one.

Stack47

Quote: Originally posted by faber98 on Dec 29, 2011

untrue, you can go to an otb and hit a tax ticket and get someone else to cash it for you. online though you are stuck with it. same for the lottery, better off with real convenience store ticket if you feel the need to avoid the taxes on lower tier hits.  and the question of whether tenn would revamp their lottery or allow it to die if residents went out of state is justified. it would make sense for them to revamp it, but would they just try to get the players who don't play online or live in the center of the state and had no choice. can't answer for the tenn lottery officials decision on that one.

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill because the majority of sales in every state lottery including Tennessee are scratch-offs. If some players are worried about paying taxes or have a way of collecting their winnings without the IRS knowing, they'll continue to buy the online game tickets at their local stores.

I doubt interstate online ticket sales will drastically boost sales unless a lottery comes up with a "must play" game. The one area where I do see a potential is raffle tickets. The last time I looked Ohio hasn't sold all their New Years raffle tickets and if they had online play, all the tickets would probably be sold. That opens the door to selling more raffle tickets by increasing the number of $1 million winner without changing the 1 in 125,000 chances.

Internet poker is probably the best bet for increasing lottery revenues.

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